Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Extreme Philosophies

Extremes. They can be dangerous right?  I think of the LDS church and the men with multiple brides and underage marriages (here ).  I think of the scrupulousness of Catholicism and the self suffering that believers have chosen to endure (here).  But I also think of some things I have read recently by Peter Singer (here). 

Some religious persons have told me that non belief in God will end in nihilism or being immoral such as Singer.  My thought is, can't both or any ideology take you to pits of human imagination?  Is there proof that religion always makes people more moral?  Is there any proof that being religious actually leads to a more moral life? 

How can a Catholic explain Fr. Maciel of the Legionaries?  Here is this man, second to the Pope. I remember when I had many friends who were members of Regnum Cristi or the Legionaries. They would wax eloquently about how their order was so holy the priests were ordained by the Pope himself.  They were not under a Diocese. Does any one see a huge coincidence?  Here we have one of the most corrupt religious founders I know of and he is second only to the Pope. Could it be a coincidence?  I think not. And for me, it causes a shadow to fall over JPII.  How could he not have known? 

I could go on.  But I would like to hear from others on why they think it is more likely or less likely to be moral and good with or without religion. What proof do you have? 


Kim said...

well they have done numerous studies that those that are involved in any church are happier etc and more "moral" than those not involved in any religion. so yes--for sure if it google it you will get results that prove there is a connection between "morality" and religion.

as for the legionaires, I remember 15 years ago that when I heard of them--they were investigating them then. It wasn't a shock or surprise what followed. I believe they were gathering evidence and making a case. People make allegations and then they need followed up. You just don't react to allegations.

Again, just becuase of a few bad priests doesn't = all priests are bad. IF there are a few bad people does that = all people are bad?

AJL said...

I don't think all priests are bad. I have some very good friends who are priests.

fRED said...



Taking a deep breath because I'm not sure where to start. Saw your link in da Bubbler(ing) site and being the curious sort, well, here I am.

I'm writing because I feel for your search, your questioning. I was/am on a similar path. Others are too. You are not alone or weird or bad because of where you are at in your spiritual sojourn.

Have you every heard Julia Sweeney's monologue, "Letting go of God"? Here is part 1 (of 4): There are other versions but these 4 parts are about 1/2 hour and give a feel for her search. I am not advocating her conclusion but I was amused and touched by her story. You might be too (or not).

My story: I gave up Catholicism about 10 yrs ago when my marriage failed and the church abandoned me when I went for their help to try to save the marriage. It was the culmination of many other things, the straw that broke the camels back....

I am still looking for the Catholicism I knew growing up. But you can never go home again they say. So far have not found it, definitely not inside a Bubble.

I am the first born of a dozen and proud of it. My parents were miraculous. I grew up RC; went to RC grade school, CCD, was an altar boy, sang in choirs, active member of the Newman Ctr in college, Eucharistic Minister, Reader, Member of Parish Council. I was brought up to live an authentic, loyal Catholic life and I did the best I could.

Then the divorce. No one seemed to care or was interested. Good luck they said. Must be for the best. Was not the RC response I expected. Where did my safety net go? (Apparently it was just a Bubble that burst when things got seriously real-talk is cheap).

Jesus was my problem. Not real for me. No problem with Almighty God. I expected him to be WAY BIGGER than me. We still talk a lot or at least I talk to him. I don't hear any answers but sometimes some amazing things happen that are beyond coincidence. So who knows?

I'm not worried about suffering eternal torment b/c I am not a professing Christian or RC. God knows I am still interested b/c I read the Bible, pray/meditate the rosary (it is calming and helps reduce my blood pressure-I hope) and what the heck, there are worse things I could do with my time. I would never condemn my son and he's not perfect, so why would I think God would want me to suffer eternally if I am an adopted child.

I don't have the answer/s but I am going to keep looking.

If you need a chuckle, check out Mr. Deity on Youtube. Here is Season 1/Ep1:

AJL said...

Thanks for your comment.

I am tired of looking for answers from sources that are not based in reality. I believe in peace and happiness and compassion and morality. But I have found supernatural prayers and aspirations wanting.

fRED said...

Sounds like you are seeking something/somewhere where they walk the talk (instead of just talk). Is this close?

RE: the wanting of (supernatural) prayers and aspirations, have you heard of Tanya Luhrmann's book, "When God Talks Back"? Based on some of your posts about religion and evil and mental health, I think you would find her research worth perusing.

While I haven't read the books, I have listened to a dozen of her radio interviews and read some essays and her website. Her experience in researching the God book was interesting as was where she ended up on it (she's still agnostic).

AJL said...

Thanks! I will definitely check her out!

AJL said...
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Longshanks said...
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Longshanks said...

I don't know if you caught any of my comments on the bubble blog, I kind of hope not since my blood got up over there and I responded more hastily than I wanted to in retrospect, but my first post was to throw these links out. (If you can, watch these in HD. The music and the video are worth soaking in.)

You talk about searching for truth, and to me a real profound search is the most beautiful thing in the world. I know that in the past, I have let myself be deceived by charismatic people who claimed to have a handle on the whole truth, and so it has been a blessing to find a group of people who proudly proclaim what they do not know.